I don't know why I posted that, no one is going to read it, but I felt it was worth writing.

reading that long text and having to go to the bathroom at the same time is not an easything.

I forgot the mention the lack of grenades, it was to be desired a lot of the time while playing. I know its a beta but its still what it is, they will tweak here and there but its valve, im not holding my breathe.

I dont understand you take on FF. I mean its pretty polished for being the first release. The maps are VERY NICE, i was impressed. They look damn good and very well made. TF2 is a whole nother game, dont even think you can call it team fortress, just call it cartoon fortress or something. The maps are SMALL, everything is very scaled down just take a look at 2fort the hallways are just wide enough for one person.

First off, its the Beta release, there are only what like 4 maps? And they are all ports from TFC. 2 fort doesn't feel any smaller than it used to be. I have full confidence that once TF2 is actually released there will be plenty of new, polished, spacious maps.

Second, TFC has always been silly and somewhat cartoony in its physics or lack there of. I think the cell shading creates an atmosphere that really suits the mood of the game. It was never meant to be a hard core death match style game like unreal tournament. I think the cell shading gives each of the classes character, and it just makes the game fun. DON'T BE ALLERGIC TO FUN!

Third, TFC has been out for what 8 years now? I'm ready to see some changes to gameplay. I really like this new teamwork thing they have going on. It is called TEAM fortress not score-whore fortress. People working together? Now there's a concept.

Fourth, FF just looks like TFC with sub-unreal tournament graphics. No creativity or imagination whatsoever. They just ported original models, some of which i didn't think ever looked good in the first place (sniper rifle, pipe launcher, etc.). I do however liek that FF did not completely nerf the medic. Though... the TF2 medic does look pretty cool.

And finally, I really do like the changes made to the sniper rifle, the point of the sniper is to be a marksman, i never quite understood why shooting someone in the foot would rupture their entire body.

Scout was always a viable class -- just a highly specialized one. The point was the grab the flag and get out. I would often use scouts for that. (Though generally I'd do medic, and then when I got the flag halfway, switch to scout.)




That's going to be sick. I think I know a new way to harass snipers now.



Can you stick them to friendlies and then blow them up later?



Are they planning to have grenades in the "final" release?



I will. The railgun kicked fooking ASS against armor. That thing was about the best gun against sentries. I also remember taking out several noob and veteran heavies by blasting away their armor then shotgunning them to death. This, of course, only worked because I was maneuverable and could dance my way out of someone's fire.. Jiggly mentioned you can't dodge like you used to. (And playing with Jiggly, I remember how he dodged -- damn he was hard to hit. myevilplans also)




I don't think we wanted a new game. I think we just wanted a revamped version of the old game. Maybe TFC but with cooler graphics. I miss the good old days of 4 MIRVs (lame name for that grenade - it's not an RV) and original models (which I still use). I would have been ecstatic if it was the same game just with better physics, better 'net code, and better graphics.



Meh. It's not as if conservatives are the only close minded people out there.. /me points to intolerant close-minded lefties.

Let me rephrase that, scout is now a viable COMBAT class. He kicks arse.


I think so, they might just blow up on contact though. I will find out tonight.



People on the server seemed to think so, also the trailer implied that they would have mirvs


There is no armor in this game. The engineer shotgun does plenty enough damage on its own.


It does have amazing graphics, in fact I love the cell shading comic book style that they went with. I thought the death cam would be really obnoxious at first, but with the addition of taunts its deffinatley the perfect way to fulfil your personal in-game vendettas. Sniper wars ftw.

The only changes I am not sure I really like is what they have done to the medic. Though I am getting used to it. I am coming to find the bonesaw is a pretty decent up close and personal weapon. And he deffinately plays an integral part in team success. He is often the primary target in any small group just because he can single handedly turn the outcome of the battle. He's just... not that great solo.

to be fair doc... you had your mind made up before either FF or TF2 were released on which one you were going to like better, and I feel your review reflects that. FF isn't just a TFC port. It has changes. They just aren't complete 180 degree changes like TF2 took. From what i've read in that past there was no movement from the developers to put Grenades into TF2.

How's the rocket jump? I thought I read you could just press a button and it would auto rocket jump you as soldier.

Aren't mods supposed to be free? I don't feel comfortable paying 30 bucks for a beta.

/agree with Doc completely

I don't know why you would think I had my mind made up before hand? Because I don't trust third party mods like NS that I have played for 6 years? Or because I enjoy spending money? That's a silly statement. Quite the opposite, I think everyone who has posted in here has been biased against TF2 because
1. fortress forever is free and
2. TF2 was madee by valve.

reading other people's reviews, no one really gave the new game play elements a chance, they said oh they changed something and without even giving the change a chance freaked out and said that TF2 sucked and Fortress Forever was vastly superior.

both mods are good in their own respects. I am not stating TF2 is superior to fortress forever... except for maybe graphically. But we've been playing a game that was released in 1999 for the past 8 years, so i sifnificantly doubt that graphics are that important to anyone here.

I stated what TF2 did wrong as well as what it did right. everyone else just stated what it did wrong and gave it an extremely biased review.

I haven't even reviewed fortress forever, in fact I never stated I liked one over the other. They are just different games.

And why should mods be free? They have development teams which put in time and effort into developing new software with the expectation of getting paid. Also valve is an evil corporation, but so what? Its up to the descretion of the developer as to whether or not a mod should be free.

Some people program for passion, others for money. Usually the ones who don't charge anything beg for donations and give special benefits to peopel who donate, which I think is equally as bad as paying for it in the first place.

And if there is a rocket jump button i haven't found it yet, but i didn't play solider very long.

Also hornet why do you always have to rain on parade :-p

I dont care if FF is free or not, it deserved my money more so then TF2. TF2 was made by valve, for what 5 years now? Changed how many times? And this is what they have?

I dont think theres really any game play elements to give a chance too. The changes are half-assed imho. Giving the a lame ass beam of health taking away the infections, and many other changes just reaks of catoring to the younger/newbie population. On top of slowing the game down to almost a crawl, there just wasnt enough excitement, cept for the "cool" cellshaded effects of the rockets, machine gun and such. Big whoop.

Everyone is stating what they did wrong because theres a lot of it, when i was playing it i was TRYING to find something i liked but couldnt. They say you could rocket jump but when i tryed to i barely got off the ground. TF2 has more balancing issues then FF also, FF is pretty damn close but TF2 there are a lot of tweaks to be made.

truth.

What? Your argument is so convoluted it doesn't make a lick of sense. Explain to me how having a health beam "cators" to the younger/newbie population. In fact... I seem to remember newbie medics running around spamming aids on respawns so wouldn't removing infections have the opposite effect?

How is the game slowed to a crawl? Because they added a resurrection timer? I think the spawn timer in a CTF style game is actually a very good idea. It makes it so the same hw you just killed can't just come right back out of the respawn and kill you.

And on another note, rocket jumping works just fine. You're just looking for things to complain about.

The short: (for slow readers)
All I know is my first experience with FF was f*cking awesome. It was TFC+++ - TFC like it used to be; like it was meant to be: when people really played, plus all the bullshit fixed and a more immersive world.

My first experience with TF2 was "OMFG it's Counter Strike!" *crash*

- Thus TF2 = lose.

The long: (for those with too much free time)
But again, I've not had a chance to play since that first, horrific experience. So I've played TF2 a total of seventeen minutes (fifteen of which were spent speccing and waiting for people to die), and I've played FF for about eight hours (damned addicting little bugger).

But it's going to be hella hard for TF2 to come back from that first impression, and everything thing I've heard makes it sound just like I feared it would be, "TFC dumbed down for the masses." - as if the game needed dumbing down - there wasn't much further down it could go. I certainly wasn't expecting to see elements of CS (the ultimate LCD game) in it. That was a horror beyond even my worst expectations!

The Conclusion: (for the indecisive)
Mind you, I had to shell money to Gabe Newell's baby eating fund to play either game, so it ain't about the cash, or the dastardly evil I'm sponsoring. Also, Lady X has recently reminded me as to how sternly set my mind can be against her friends from first impressions, so it may work the same with games. But usually when I have low expectations for something, it turns out to be better than I thought - TF2 was the first time, in a long time, that rule was broken (and broken in a BIG way.)
_________________
"You cannot call it love, for at your age
The hey-day in the blood is tame, it's humble,
And waits upon the judgment... And what judgment
Would step from this to this!?" - Hamlet
Thothie

While I don't agree with everything said, I do believe that the timer was a bad idea. I got into TFC because of its pace. It's a FAST paced game and there are few games out there like it. Because of the instant respawns, it makes it easy to keep a nice, consistent, high speed rush throughout the game. TF2 slows this down. Sit in your chair for 15 seconds, not doing anything, and count down. It's like an eternity - especially in a FPS as frantic as TFC. That's last thing you want in a game that has so much chaos (in the form of 'nades everywhere, conc jumping, bunny hopping, wall strafing, drunk bomb confusion, and infection turned epidemic/mass panic among the team), especially a time gap so large. This absolutely slows down the pace of the game. Anyways, it doesn't matter - many of the things that made TFC so unique among FPS games seems to be gone. It's a good game - but I don't understand why you'd -remove- so much of what made TFC so special.

...And I seriously doubt grenades are making a comeback. From what I could recall, Valve intentionally removed grenades from the game... I could be wrong however on this one.

I really fail to see how they dumbed it down. In my honest opinion all they did was remove the clutter, ie nade spam, infection spam (which i do kind of miss), everything else is still relatively the same only with prettier graphics. I will miss conc jumps, and all of the other special grenades, but they didn't make TFC, in fact they just plane made it obnoxious at times. Run out of respawn, doh napalm spam. Run out of respawn, doh mirv spam, run out of respawn, doh emp spam, run out of respawn, doh egg spam. That just got fucking obnoxious, and its all noobs seemed to know how to do. So once again I fail to see how removing that is catering to the masses.

Yes, I will miss well tossed nades. Yes I will miss conc jumps. Maybe... i will miss infection. TF2 is still a decent game. I like alot of the changes they made, namely spy, scout, and sniper to say the least.