actually... the first thing I said in reply to your post was. Too long, didn't read. But let me go back and answer your questions.

Obviously, you have not read the thread or else you would have read about my experiences with marijuana, I know first hand what the effects of it are. I know 13 pages is alot to read for someone as willing to "judge" and jump to conclusions as you, but perhaps you should do some research so you know what you're talking about. What a concept.

lets begin.

I orignally made this thread to share my experiences with drug usage, and to allow everyone the same opportunity. It was also meant to server as a thread where people could make suggestions for safe and intelligent drug usage.



huh? Close-minded conservative? I'd say you're jumping to conclusions without previous knowledge. I guess that makes you ignorant.


Maybe you should go back and read my "real world experience" with drugs instead of assuming I don't have any.


no


I throw stones at people who do stupid things. Walking around intoxicated is not intelligent. I'm sorry if you feel differently, you should deffinately try it then, come back, and tell me if it was a good idea.


Yes, I'm from Philly.


My views on marijuana are not presumptuous they are realistic. It's illegal, therefore I don't do it in public to keep from getting in trouble with the law. Do I find the law unfair? Not especially. Even if I did, it wouldn't make much a difference would it, since the law will remain to exist until someone with the power to change it does so. I am not a lobbyist now am I?


I completely agree, this is why I don't worry about it. There are much more important matters to address like, the 13 trillion dollar defecit.


That may or may not be true, the fact of the matter remains that it is still illegal so doing it in public is not smart. Driving while under the influence of anything is a bad idea, I'm glad we agree.


I'm not putting down people on their opinions. Not once have I stated marijuana SHOULD be illegal, I have only stated that it IS illegal. A concept you stoners just can't seem to grasp.



Why, you too kind sir.

Did I judge LostKittie?

Why yes I did, but not based on the fact that she walked around in public intoxicated. I simply suggested she shouldn't do that to avoid complications. I judged her based on her replies and obvious disrespect for any of my opinions. Much like what you are doing here.

maybe we "stoners" value standing up for what we want over whatever false safety blindly following laws will get us.

Yes, under the influence of a substance means impaired because you are not acting as you would normally act if you were not under the influence of the drug. The only exception to this rule might be if you are on the drug so often, that your time you spend under the influence is greater than the amount of time you spend not under the influence.


It really depends on what your personal benefits from the drug are that can pronounce it "net bad." If the only net good is a state of euphoria and the fact that it makes you happy


Then I misread your comment, but realize the initial comment WAS about someone being out in public intoxicated, this is where you chimed in.


Using a perscription drug recreationally is considered drug abuse, and that is one of the primary arguments against legalizing the drug for medicinal use, because it is too easy to abuse.


What you don't seem to grasp is I never said marijuana should be illegal. All I said was that that it is illegal and should not be done in public. I also claimed that there is really no good reason to legalize it, other than medical claims found to be Illegitimate by the US government. Maybe if they thought people wouldn't abuse it for recreational purposes, they would legalize it for medicinal use.


no need for name calling. It's good you don't do it in public anymore, my original post wasn't directed at you.


I am quite aware of how the endocrine and nervous systems works. They are not the same as weed because they are produced by your body, not a foreign substance. The reason THC works the way it does, is because it binds to receptors in your brain that are meant for receiving compounds similar similar in structure to that of THC. What makes marijuana bad for you is the fact that the levels of THC which are found in modern day marijuana are much higher than the normal amounts of THC your body could take normally.


Yes, smoking anything is "bad" for your lungs.

Killing obviously is wrong, hence it is illegal. Gay marriage is not really... "illegal" its just not legitimized. Regardless, once again, I'll reiterate, I never said smoking marijuana is wrong, I just said its illegal, and therefore you shouldn't do it in public for the sake of your best interests. But if you're going to jump on me about it, then go ahead. I don't care if you are issued a citation. When its legal then smoke it in public all you care to.

As I stated before, laws are made for the masses, not to govern individuals. Are all laws fair? No, deffinately not, look at male rape laws. They're not fair at all.

As it stands, I believe there are much more important issues in this country worth addressing before the legalization of marijuana. I don't care one way or another if its legal or not. In fact I would probably use it again if it were legal. But I'm not going to fight for something that's not important to me. End of story.

and lol, if they were actually worrying about the 13 T$ debt i might consider that mj getting decriminalized as not important enough, but they arent. as it stands, almost 800,000 american citizens every year get penalized for doing something that is practically an essential right (sustaining and nourishing our selves/bodies/minds however we must). What about the money it takes to put them through the system, and incarcerate those we care to? That alone will do more for the deficit than the gov't is going to (especially considering both present day "liberals" and present day "conservatives" show trends only of increased spending. Add on the rest of the drug war (hasn't accomplished a thing except make a few "importers," crooked cops/fbi/cia, and the prison-industrial complex filthy rich.

That money is actually pretty negligible when you consider our national debt, especially since that money stays within the country. Also, "essentially right" is really relative since it depends on people not abusing the drug. Given the problem with obesity in america, I'd say the masses general ability to deprive itself of pleasures is pretty low. The inability to use it in moderation with the elevated levels of THC would actually most likely make the drug "Net bad" for the population. This is probably one of the reasons why the law exists. But as has been stated before, no more so than that of alcohol or cigarettes.

I think it was stated earlier in this thread that it is much easier to make something illegal than it is to make it legal. Hence why it will most likely be awhile before marijuana is legalized on the national level, even medicinaly.

Where did my new proverbial carpenter friend Seanzor go? I was hoping to hear from him again before this conversation ended.

there are several concrete occasions where you directly linked marijuana with wrong. I do, however, understand your position towards it.

And i was merely pointing out that just because medical marijuana and recreational marijuana are the same item doesn't make me taking mj medicinally and recreationally any worse than me say taking xanax medicinally and recreationally "abusing" methamphetamine. The medical part is still completely legitimate.

Why is it the concern of the society to STOP us from enjoying ourselves? why does taking a drug for fun make it bad? is skydiving bad because you don't need to put yourself in that danger, because you didnt have a legitimate need? no. neither is any other thing you do.

that stuff about mj being way stronger is total bs. its been definitively debunked. the grass they use to compare against was some random schwag that then also sat in the evidence room for 2 years with all the thc degrading. Yes modern stuff is a little more potent through breeding etc, but they had that stuff back then too, just not as widespread maybe. also, your body can take nearly ANY amount of thc . . . theres no attainable level where it actually does bad things to you just because there is more of it in you at once. Its actually safer in that way than 90% of every substance we know.

you should also know that mj wasn't made illegal because it had recreational merit, it was made illegal because of fearmongering toward mexicans and blacks, and (mostly, the racism was probably mostly a tool used to get it banned) because of its threat to established industries. That is also the only reason it is illegal still (because of all the stubbornness, misinformation and obfuscation caused by the industries concerned)

and your original comment was a bit of a blanket statement, and I felt like that blanket covered me, thats why i responded.

and marijuana will be legal (on a federal level) recreationally before it will medicinally, unless the supreme court decides it wants to give some rightful power back to the states (but who wants to give power away?). The FDA and pharmesutical companies will make damn sure of that. the last thing they want is people getting their medicine from their backyard.

i can't find the study right now, but the brain actually adapts to large amounts of THC to prevent any harm or addiction (the more thc in your system the fewer receptors available for binding, when thc levels go down the number of receptors increases. this is the mechanism used in other "safe" highs (ie any of the "normal" things we do for pleasure), NOT the mechanism used in drugs of abuse.

Oh, one other thing . . . you shouldn't use the word "impaired" to mean "affected." they are two different things. under the influence means "affected," and despite all its connotations it is a denotatively neutral concept and is not synonymous with impaired. hence i was "affected" by the weed, or the.

and i never said a few billion a year would help the budget that much, i just said it would help MORE than what they are going to do. Do you realize what they do now to ease the debt? Inflate our money so that as time progresses the debt becomes smaller. Inflation favors the debted.

For the sake of argument, yes i did. But only in examples where I compared it to substances like alcohol. Abuse of marijuana, as with any drug, is of course wrong.

Taking it for any use other than its intended use makes it "bad." That's not to say if the drug was intended for recreational it would be abuse to use it recreationally. I actually had an idea awhile back to have recreational doctors which would prescribe recreational drugs. It's far fetched, but it might someday happen with the evolution of medicine. One of my ideas was a drug that simulated orgasm. Woot for the crazy ideas of a young doc. (why take a drug when sex is more fun, and masturbation is free?)


While part of that might be true, you can't deny that marijuana has been genetically altered and bred to have higher levels of THC than past species. Much like we have bread different characteristics into dogs.

I never claimed it was made illegal because of recreational merit. Partially you are right, also I think thoth had a theory earlier in the thread which stated it will not be legalized because America's farmland is already taken up by other crops, meaning the legalization and demand for marijuana would create a foreign cash crop.


It's a general statement, its a bad idea to do illegal things in public. That, and as we have already stated, its rude to walk around stoned just like it is rude to walk around drunk. Actually... it's illegal to walk around drunk.


I don't know about that, especially if we do go through the huge healthcare reform all of the democratic canidates are talking about. Most likely the pharmesutical companies are going so see a large shift in both money and power.

I'm sorry dude but, your retarded.
http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2 ... t_2006.pdf
35.8 Billion yearly is a huge amount. The tax revenue would be astounding. Money staying in the country is even better as it promotes job growth and rises in consumer spending.

Also beowulf hit the objective of my question about being straight in a gay world and standing up for your rights on the head. Just because you are serving your own desires, that doesn't make you a "bad" person.

but can't marijuana have multiple intended usages?

And how is "abusing" (defined as using a substance for something other than its "intended use") automatically wrong?

Doc:


Just because I brushed you off and didnt agree nor cared for your opinions makes me an idiot? Hmm, there's something really wrong with you...



Now is that really constructive criticism? The part telling me I mostly likely smelled? How are you going to assume something like that. And you shouldnt be walking around if youve done ANY drugs. omg I guess not even acetametaphine! LOL wtf... Why would you say that.





Oh but its ok for you to call me an idiot but its WRONG for him to call you an idiot and you didn't like it.

Doc youre such a hypocrite.

Correct, you're an idiot not because you brushed me off because you replied to me in an immature and childish manner which leads me to beleive you didn't even read what I posted to begin with. Lets recap shall we.

your initial post.


My initial post, was to agree with you and assert that not only should you not get stoned and go to target, but not to get stoned and go anywhere. Because walking around giggling like a ninny and smelling of pot paints a large target on you for any law enforcement who happen to be in the area. Seems reasonable yes?



To you replied this,

which leads me to believe you didn't even read my post to begin with, or perhaps that it was too complicated for you to understand, since my comment was simply agreeing with your post.

Still keeping my civil tone, I once again replied to you with my statement, no really, its bad to walk around in public while you're stoned.



To which you replied



Seeing a pattern?

At that point I replied, still in my civil tone, that obviously you were not understanding what I was saying it it was pointless to argue with you since you are an idiot seem to be bent on insulting me. And once again you replied


So let me ask, who has been throwing around insults Kittie, me or you?



Once again, proof you don't understand simple concepts such as, after smoking a substance, your body smells of that substance. Have you ever smelled someone after they smoke a cigarette? They smell very much like an ash tray. Pot, is even more fragrant than tobacco. After you smoke pot (smoke not vaporize) you smell very heavily of it, but your nose has adjusted to the smell and you're too high to care anyway. This makes it obvious to everyone around you that you have been smoking pot.

Also my comment clearly stated "MOST OF THE TIME it is a bad idea to walk around in public under the influence of drugs." And in fact that is true, have you ever read the warning lable on just about any over the counter medicine? Nearly all of them say you should not drive or operate heavy machinery. Stating MOST and not ALL does not include tylenol within the parameters of my statement. If you weren't an idiot, you would probably realize that my initial statement was pertaining to the direct drug of conversation, marijuana, not tylenol.




The situation was completely different. In my discussions with both Yogurt and Erik, we maintained a civil tone and presented well thought out and intelligent arguments. Even though everyone seemed to miss the point completely that I never said not to smoke pot, the discussion was still intelligent and civil. You and your friend Seanzor on the other hand have done nothing in this conversation but attempt to attack me personally to which you have failed miserably.

In fact, not only have 3 seperate people told you walking around high in public is a bad idea and considered rude or risky, you yourself originally said "Don't go to target while you are high." This would be walking around in public would it not? You're talking yourself in circles, and you should probably stop. I know I am done arguing with you because you because all you have done is turn my thread into a flame war.

LOL rude, so laughing, having a great time, minding your own business is rude? If all those things were so damn rude, then why arent people reporting it? Under the influences or not, they can careless. Why? Maybe because they arent doing any harm to anyone or causing any problems. And if that's the case, why do you state its such a problem?

Doc maybe you need to get out that world youre in and see that the way you interperate other peoples perspective it isnt so wrong and horrible. Youre the type of person who is close-minded and the only way they would understand is to experience it for themself. Everyone here that is arguing with you have. And the fact is you havent so you cant say it's "bad", just because it's illegal.

We break the law almost everyday, but people dont sweat it cause its not such a big deal. And this is an example, something so little you take it and make it into such a problem because people dont agree with your opinions. It's not as "bad" as you think it is.

I never deny saying insluts but does that make someone an idiot. So what if I said things ONLINE, does it really hurt you that bad? So bad that just because im not nice to you that you consider me being an idiot? And beside I didnt write "Doing ANY drug and walking around public before your sober is generally a terrible idea...", excuse me that was you. I understand way more than you do. If you cant handle it and finish it, then WHY WOULD YOU EVEN START?!?!?! WOW I feel sorry for you... you're a sad person.

All my intention was just to tell a story, that's it. But you had to have your smart ass remarks. So it lead to this, dont try to blame me for something I didnt provoke. Man up and take your responsiblities, instead of bestowing upon someone else. And please just keep calling me an idiot cause that's all you have.

Ok doc keep telling yourself that I dont understand and this war was all me not anyone else, uh huh sure. Whatever you want. Call me whatever you like. Do whatever you please. Beacuse online your so much better than I am. Get a real life offline and pretend youre going to be dead tomorrow.